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========================================================================== (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt. Type XJM11877,GEnie and hit RETURN. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 32, Topic 33 Message 1 Sun Oct 11, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:00 EDT I've started this topic so that those who do not wish to get too technical can avoid these discussions. It's relatively easy to write modules for Extendo-O-Save, even though an initial glance at the assembly source may look a bit daunting. We have a working C model which will be uploaded shortly. And I'm looking into the viability of writing in GFA, although it may not be possible. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 2 Sun Oct 11, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:26 EDT John Dillenburg, In answer to your questions in the Warp 9 topic, a module can be as big as you like, although it makes sense to keep their size as small as possible. When the user loads a module, memory is allocated as needed. It may or may not be available. There is a pointer to the filename in Warp 9's backdoor structure. See the file W9BACK.S, "q_modfname". I suppose a "demo" button might make it slightly easier invoke for testing, but now it only requires that you move the mouse to the appropriate corner and wait a second. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 3 Sun Oct 11, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 23:59 EDT Where do I get W9BACK.S? I have EXTENDO.TXT, AES_EQU.S and PICFADE.S. None of them mention a q_modfname. Are you thinking of mypath in the header? This is only a path though...? You miss the main point about the demo button, it allows you to adjust a module's parameters and watch the effects in real-time. I was thinking of putting this in my modules, but I thought it would be better if it was "standardized." I have hacked up Mark Williams C enough so that it is now works as a W9 module compilier. Any progress on letting us module makers use W9's graphic routines? John Dillenburg ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 4 Mon Oct 12, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:25 EDT John, Oops...I thought we had included W9BACK.S with the dev kit. It's basically just an equate file that has the needed offsets into Warp 9's backdoor. We'll upload it to the library. I think I understand you now about the demo button, but if it's something you'd want to test will your config box is on the screen it would seem that you should do your own demo button. It could then just call your kick-in routine, continue calling the periodic routine until a keypress occurs, and then call the kick-out routine. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 5 Mon Oct 12, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 18:14 EDT John, I noticed one small problem with the Warp 9 Extendo-O-Save. I loaded in the Slow-Disolve module, and when it activates and I move the mouse to go back to the normal screen, whatever is under the mouse pointer stays that way. If the blocks are there under the pointer, that is what stays on the screen. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday October 12, 1992 - 04:28:46 p.m. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 6 Mon Oct 12, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:38 EDT Jeff, It was nice to meet you this past weekend. Thanks for the report about the mouse garbage in the screensaver. This doesn't seem to happen on my system. What version of TOS are you using and what program were you in when you experienced this? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 7 Tue Oct 13, 1992 B.AEIN [B Man] at 00:22 EDT Jhon, I too have had a misdrawn screen... This is what I think the prob is: If the mouse is moved and the screen starts to come back BUT you put the mouse into the menu, it freezes the redraw and leaves a bogus screen with "holes" in it. I just ran a program and everything cleared up. Bman ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 8 Tue Oct 13, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 01:35 EDT John, Actually I found the problem with the garbage on the screen. I was using a program that hid the mouse pointer after a certain time limit, that was the conflict, and it only happened while I was in Aladdin. Would it be difficult to add the code to do that to Warp 9?. The mouse pointer is annoying during certain programs and games. And yes it was finally nice to meet you face to face. I must say that you were not what I expected at all. (I mean that in the nice way). If only I had the money for all the programs that you showed me at the show <Grin>. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tuesday October 13, 1992 - 01:24:34 a.m. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 9 Tue Oct 13, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 02:36 EDT John, sure would like to know what aes calls are legal during the periodic routine. Also would like to know more about calling the XBIOS directly via a jmp. How are parameters passed, what is legal during periodic, etc. Thanx, Mike Allen ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 10 Tue Oct 13, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 06:28 EDT I like the idea of putting a mouse pointer blanker into Warp 9. Should be pretty simple, and would get rid of yet ANOTHER Double-Click program from my AUTO folder... ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 11 Tue Oct 13, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:12 EDT Jeff, So that explains why I'm not able to reproduce the problem. The reason there are problems with DC Mouse Save is that it is trying to do something which cannot be done "legally" (sheesh...now I suppose I'm going to get busted for saying this). For this reason, we would not implement such a feature in Warp 9, even though we've had numerous requests to do so. Aladdin is the only program in which I often want the mouse pointer moved out of the way. I have CodeKeys set up so I just hit the zero on the numeric keypad and the mouse disappears. It's a simple macro with only one event: "UP X=639 Y=<anything>". The "Return" button is turned off in the Macro Options box. Mike Allen, Basically, no AES, VDI, GEMDOS, BIOS, or XBIOS calls are allowable during the periodic routine. The reason for this is that the vertical blank (and hence the periodic routine) may very well be called while the system is processing another call. Since these OS calls are not reentrant, it would cause problems (crashes) to call them while they are currently being processed. With the BIOS and the XBIOS, it's possible to make calls by directly jumping to the routines. This bypasses the system handler routines and eliminates (hopefully) any conflicts. When you make a BIOS or XBIOS call which doesn't exist (such as #$37F in the dissolve routine), the address of the jump table (plus 2) is returned in register A0. These tables can be used (at your own risk) to jump directly through the routines you want. We use it in the PICFADE module to get random numbers. John P.S. Please folks, my comments above about DC Mouse Save have nothing to do with any imagined personality conflicts with Double Click. Please don't blow this up into a discussion of personalities. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 12 Tue Oct 13, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 12:22 EDT Mike Allen, Sorry; no AES calls are legal during a screensaver module's periodic routine. The AES is not re-entrant, and the system will crash if your periodic routine (which is active during the vertical blank interrupt) makes an AES call while another one is already being processed. There may be a way in the future to call some of the VDI functions that Warp 9 handles (e.g., line drawing, graphic text, rectangle fills, etc.) during the periodic routine, but there are a few wrinkles we have to work out first. As for calling XBIOS routines directly with a JSR, the source code included with the Warp 9 Extend-O-Save Construction Set has a pretty good example of this technique; it calls the XBIOS Random() function in this manner. Have a look at PICFADE.S, at the labels "init_module:" and ".big2:". - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Tuesday, October 13, 1992 9:18 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 13 Tue Oct 13, 1992 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 19:16 EDT Register another vote for a replacement rodent blanker. Warp9 would be the perfect spot for it. -Tom McComb ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 14 Tue Oct 13, 1992 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 20:21 EDT Oh well, scratch the mouse hider! -Tom McComb ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 15 Tue Oct 13, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 22:17 EDT John, Just HOW one gets the mouse pointer out of the way isn't really of much interest to most of us, as long as it isn't lying around in the way of the text. Just how do other programs, such as WordPerfect, for instance, get it turned off when I start to enter text?? I KNOW you can turn the darn thing off and on, so what is illegal about it? If it is illegal, LOTS of programs should be getting 'ticketed'. Anyway, if you figure it can't legally be hidden, then why not just park it at 639x199 (or 399)?? ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 16 Wed Oct 14, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 03:50 EDT John and Charles, thanks for the responses - I appreciate it. Please bear with me, its been a long time since I've programmed in assembly - Been using Fortrash on VAXes for the last few years. Charles, I've spent many hours (ok, so I'm slow) pouring over PICFADE.S. I figured out what you were doing with the Random() XBIOS call. (reminds me of my CP/M days - calling BIOS [and XBIOS under CP/M 3] routines directly because of the overhead in using the BDOS call.) With the Random() XBIOS call there were no parameters passed to the XBIOS call. I was wondering how parameters are passed to the XBIOS when using the jsr. Can XBIOS 2 through 7 be used in kick_in and kick_out? (for some reason, I suspect not <g>) I assume the same caveats that apply to periodic also apply to kick_in and kick_out. Sampled sound looks like a bear, although it looks easier with an STe using DMA. (learning about that, too - my cup runeth over.) Sorry I missed you in El Paso. I didn't get home from work until 9pm and it is an hour drive (at Warp 9) from Las Cruces to El Paso. Maybe sometime in the future you can make Las Cruces. The PanAm Center (known as the Pandimonium Center) is quite a venue. Again, thanks for the patience. Mike Allen ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 17 Wed Oct 14, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:16 EDT Ron, The problem (here he goes again folks, putting down other programs) with DC Mouse Saver is that it is operating within an interrupt, but affecting the current process. In the case of a screen saver, the mouse saver is saving the screen data when it turns off the mouse (so that it can be replaced when the mouse is moved again). Unfortunately, the saved portion of screen may contain pieces of the screen saver. This is what causes the problem with the dissolve and PicFade modules. As for WordPerfect and other programs that hide the mouse, it's perfectly legal to turn off the mouse when you are in control. The foreground process is in control; a background process is not. Moving it to the right edge of the screen though, might be possible. That's a good idea. Mike Allen, You are correct about the "kick" routines. They are also called during the VBL and have the same limitations as the periodic routine. To pass parameters to the XBIOS/BIOS calls, just push them on the stack, but don't push the opcode itself. Then jsr through the appropriate routine. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 18 Wed Oct 14, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 18:19 EDT John, Thanks. This is not the first time that DC Mouse Save messed something up for me. I hope that the program likes the insides of my TrashCan. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wednesday October 14, 1992 - 05:20:56 p.m. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 19 Wed Oct 14, 1992 J.NESS [Jim] at 20:43 EDT Re: a foreground process turning off the mouse... In this example, that's true, but in a windowed multitasking process, like Windows or MultiTOS, it should be a no-no for any process to turn the mouse off for more than a moment. Otherwise, the user can't click on some other process' window. Screen savers are excepted, because when you move the mouse, it will come back on anyway. -JN ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 20 Thu Oct 15, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:08 EDT John, 'Parking' the mouse at the lower right would leave one pixel of it on the screen. Not TOO many displays would be messed up by THAT pixel, or at least *I* could live with it.. Grin. Jim Ness, Huh? If you move the mouse, DCMSAV turns it back on, too. Not sure I see how this bothers a screensaver, but I will take you guys word for it. Since my need for a screen saver is one that BLANKS the screen, the EOS modules aren't of any interest here. But I hope everyone else loves them. (looks that way). ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 21 Thu Oct 15, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 00:21 EDT Not to gang up on DC, but I also had problems with DC Mouse Saver. So although I loved the idea, it didn't last very long on my system. I'm now using FujiMaus to 'park' my mouse pointer after one minute of inactivity. I've been using it since it was first released, without any apparent incompatibilities, so it appears to be solid. The only problem I've had is 'losing' the mouse pointer occasionally, which is easily rectified with FujiMaus' hotkey command to turn it back on. A mouse parker for Warp 9 would be great, especially if it was smart enough to know when you're in an EOS hot corner, and not move the mouse in that instance. - Terry - ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 22 Thu Oct 15, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 19:49 EDT John, I still don't see W9BACK.S in the library, where is it? John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 23 Thu Oct 15, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 22:09 EDT <slapping forehead> I don't know why I didn't think of it until now, but I just remembered that a mouse-parking feature is already built into Warp 9. <sheesh...I could've had a V-8> I'm sorry we forgot to document this feature. It's similar to the screen saver implementation. Simply move the mouse to the lower right corner. Voila...out of the way. John <satisfaction guaranteed> ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 24 Fri Oct 16, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:12 EDT John, What a novel concept, a manual 'mouse parker'. Leave it to the CodeHeads to think up a new approach. Charles, come home, John is working too hard! ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 25 Fri Oct 16, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:02 EDT John, Sorry, I forgot to upload it. I just did. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 26 Fri Oct 16, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 18:46 EDT John, Is there a way to make the mouse activator area a little bigger. I found some programs that do not allow me to put the mouse pointer all the way up in the corner. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Friday October 16, 1992 - 11:29:50 a.m. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 27 Sat Oct 17, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:10 EDT Jeff, No, there's no way to make the area bigger. Which programs don't allow the mouse to move up there? Why don't you use a different corner? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 28 Sun Oct 18, 1992 R.DEAN3 [GUNNER] at 12:20 EDT John; Thanks for starting this topic. I am not a programmer and get bummed when I have to scroll through 50 messages on STuff over my head, to find what I'm looking for. Good idea! Gunner ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 29 Sun Oct 18, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 13:36 EDT John, Actually it is the SLOW-DISSOLVE module that does this when I am playing Empire (Something I do alot when I am not here being a pain in someone's a@#). I cannot activate that module in any corner, but the PYRO-TECH module works fine that way. Also in the same program (Empire), slow dissolve will not active when the cursor is flashing in a survey mode. Nothing major here. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sunday October 18, 1992 - 11:40:38 a.m. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 30 Sun Oct 18, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:53 EDT Jeff, The "Fade Now" corner has nothing to do with which module is loaded. Warp 9 does not pass control to the module until the screensaver kicks in. In other words, I don't believe you when you say one module allows the "Fade Now" and another doesn't. <grin> Try again. If a flashing cursor is keeping the screensaver from kicking in, it is because it is using system calls which you've got enabled in Extend-O-Save. Try turning off one or both "text" buttons and it will probably start kicking in. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 31 Sun Oct 18, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:22 EDT I've just uploaded a C developer's kit for writing Extend-O-Save modules. It includes a complete, but simple module called Sprinkles that places short, random, horizontal lines on a black screen. Next stop...(I hope)...GFA! John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 32 Sun Oct 18, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 21:45 EDT John, I did try it several times. When I have the SLOW-Dissolve loaded in, it would not activate when I go to the active corner. Five minutes later... Actually I just found out that it is related to the flashing cursor. Whenever the cursor is on the screen flashing, the screen saver will not activate in the active corner. Turning off the 'GEM Graphics/Text' fixes it. Thanks. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sunday October 18, 1992 - 08:29:46 p.m. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 33 Sun Oct 18, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 23:08 EDT John, Thanks John, the equate file works fine. I noticed you've included much more information in the equate file. In particular, I noticed 'q_loadmod' and 'q_freemod' which are pointers to module loading and removing routines. Does this make it possible to write a 'multi' module or a 'randomizer' module? Is it possible to have more than one module loaded at a time? The 'multi' module would probably need to keep track of the newly loaded modules since Warp 9 only has memory locations for one module. Hmmm. What do you think? John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 34 Mon Oct 19, 1992 R.JOHNSTONE1 [Robert J] at 01:54 EDT John E., I implemented your Codekeys trick to move the cursor to the bottom of the screen in Aladdin. It works great but . . . Let the computer sit until the Extend-O-Save kicks in while in the Aladdin program then hit keypad 0 to bring back the screen. The results I got was bizarre. The martin window came back but all the menubar was gone. I could go up with trhe cursor and do pull downs but there was no text in them. I ended up quitting and re-loading Aladdin to clean things up. Robert Johnstone Modesto, CAlif ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 35 Tue Oct 20, 1992 SOLOPOLYFONY [SoloPolyfony] at 02:13 EDT Just a reminder to those of you using the "manual mouse hider": It's a heck of a lot easier to get the mouse into the right spot if you have Warp9's mouse wrap routines turned off. <g> One pixel too far, and the mouse shows up in the wrong corner! I keep trying to hide the mouse in the lower right, and it appears in the upper left. That's just my clumsiness, though. Solo Polyphony ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 36 Tue Oct 20, 1992 J.LEHETT2 [J.J. Lehett] at 20:19 EDT As I am much more accustomed to C than assembly I looked forward to seeing the release of the C dev kit which I just downloaded. Some things I am not too clear on: Since extendo.o was compiled with madmac its object files are not compatible (as far as I can tell) with GCC. Even if I do tranform it from/to DRI object modules (I think thats at least one of the types) will it be possible to use GCC to compile exten-o-save modules? Any suggestions? J.J. Lehett ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 37 Tue Oct 20, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:51 EDT John Dillenburg, That's right, you've guessed it. We tried to think of everything that would be needed in order to have a multi-module loader (randomizer). If you want to take a stab at writing one, it would be great. We intend to do one eventually but who knows when we'll get around to it? One important concept for the loader would be the shared screen buffer. That's why the existing modules first check to see if a screen buffer has been reserved and will use it (we haven't tested this yet, but it should work). This will take care of the biggest memory hog in the modules. Due to the nature of the screensaver, disk access is not possible at kick-in time so the module would have to load all of the modules into memory first. The modules themselves don't consume much memory as long as they can share the same memory buffer. The loader could keep track of the modules routine addresses and dispatch their addresses for randomization or cycling. Robert Johnstone, It sounds like you've got a conflicting program. There's no explanation for that kind of behavior. Which Extend-O-Save module were you using? I don't have that problem here. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 38 Tue Oct 20, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:51 EDT J.J., The .O file output from MadMac is DRI format and should be compatible with any linker. It worked fine with the Laser C linkker. I'm not familiar with GCC. Have you tried it? Does it not work? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 39 Tue Oct 20, 1992 S.GARRIGUS [Scotty] at 23:53 EDT John, That would be great if you could get a GFA developer's kit to work! I'd really like to give it a go if it can be done. Thanks! Scotty S.R.G. Software ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 40 Thu Oct 22, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 18:46 EDT John E., I plan on making at least a dozen screen savers. I hope someday to have as many neato screen savers as After Dark. I am interested in doing a multi- module saver, but I'll need more information about the calling conventions to q_loadmodule and q_freemod first. I case anyone is interested I have finished a "random pixel" module, a "random line" module and a "random shape" module. As you can see, I'm working my way up the complexity scale. I'm currently working on "Pyro Deluxe." My modules are all configurable, work in all resolutions, and save their configuration into themselves. When I get about ten modules finished I'll upload them as shareware. John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 41 Thu Oct 22, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 22:53 EDT John Dillenburg, That's great! If you'd like to F-Mail any of your modules to us to check for compatibility, I'd be happy to take a look at them. I'll try to dig up some more info on the undocumented pointers. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 42 Thu Oct 22, 1992 J.LEHETT2 [J.J. Lehett] at 23:00 EDT Yes, the gcc linker says "not a rel or archive file" or something similiar to that for the extendo.o file. As you said then, MadMac puts out DRI format. While gcc puts out another type of format for the objetc files, which it also expects for input. I have had this problem on another project a year or so ago, and the solution at the time, was recompiling the .o files for gcc specifically. I know this is a pain however, so I won't pres you on the issue :) I think somewhere a DRI->(whatever the name of the other format was) and back was released... and I am trying to relocate that file. So... yes I have tried it with gcc (2.2.2 patchlevel 3) and no it wouldn't load. Let me know if there's anything you'd suggest. As I am just getting into assembly, would it be possible for me to adjust the extendo.s files into a format the Gnu assembler will use, assemble it that way, then link with my compiled C module, to a .ext file for use with Warp 9. Or will Warp 9 then also not accept such an object file? Or is that a question to be answered through 'trying it out' :) Thanks for the 'listen', J.J. Lehett ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 43 Fri Oct 23, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 00:39 EDT John D., Sounds great! Can't wait to check out your modules! - Terry - ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 44 Fri Oct 23, 1992 CBARRON at 02:05 EDT I downloaded but did not study too deeply the extendo C kit. there seems to be mad mac source to extendo.o namely extendo.s, Can you get it to assemble with gas? If so problem will probably be solved. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 45 Fri Oct 23, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 02:19 EDT J.J., If you can assemble the EXTENDO.S file with your assembler into an .O file that your compiler can recognize, then I don't see why you couldn't use it to create Extend-O-Save modules. I'd suggest you try using the Sprinkle source code to get a valid, working module first. Once you succeed with that, you can begin writing your own code. Remember that the EXTENDO.O module must be linked as the first module. Do not link a standard INIT.O file as you would normally when creating an executable file. I find it rather strange that a compiler would use object files that are not compatible with Atari's standard. Such is the world of C programming. To me, assembly programming is far easier. My time is spent with problems in my own code, not dealing with the compiler and linker. Oops, there I go again getting on the assembly soap box. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 46 Fri Oct 23, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 04:32 EDT John, when the various portions of the e-o-s module are called is the system in user or supervisor mode? Mike Allen ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 47 Fri Oct 23, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:13 EDT Mike Allen, Extend-O-Save modules are called in supervisor mode, from the vertical blank routine. All registers are saved so you are free to use any of them without corruptions (except A7, the stack, of course). John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 48 Fri Oct 23, 1992 J.LEHETT2 [J.J. Lehett] at 20:18 EDT OK, will let you folks know how it goes compiling the .s with gas... will have to look into the differences between the two compilers, and there ARE QUITE a few... each and every line with instructions will have to be changed, but should hopefully be straightforward. J.J. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 49 Sat Oct 24, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:30 EDT J.J., I don't understand what you mean by "each and every line with instructions will have to be changed". Do you mean the assembly code or the C source? All of this source code is very standard. If your compiler is this non-standard, don't you find that you need to make major changes to all source code you try to compile? If this is the case, it would seem to me you need to use a more standard compiler. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 50 Sat Oct 24, 1992 R.JOHNSTONE1 [Robert J] at 02:49 EDT John E. I am using the Pyrotechnics 1.1 module. My computer is a Mega SST and the confilct may come from some of the SST overhead. I worked around the problem though. I set the zero key to put the cursor at the x/y locations of 1/1. All works fine. Robert Johnstone Modesto, CAlif ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 51 Sat Oct 24, 1992 J.LEHETT2 [J.J. Lehett] at 22:18 EDT Well, the GAS aseembler syntax is unlike most assemblers. There's no such thing as .l, .b etc... and all the adressing modes are handled in a different format. Thats what I meant by changing the code. (At least this is the info I have gleaned from it so far. :) As to it being so 'different', well its simply the assembler. The gcc 2.2.2 is a ANSI compliant C, C++, and Objective C compiler, which I have no problems with. Its only when I start mucking around with the assembly code I hit trouble. (BTW GCC is a memory hog, and a bit slow compiling due to its length, but it is one powerful compiler.) I'm addressing my wedding invitations etc etc this weekend, so rather busy, but will let you know when I have found anything worthwhile about the GAS and extendo-save combo. PS: Is NOONE else here using Gnu's stuff???? J.J. Lehett ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 52 Mon Oct 26, 1992 STARFALL [Alan] at 00:55 EST There are two very different styles of assemblers for the 68000, which can be classified as Motorola-style (syntax like Motoroloa specifies it), and MIT-style (an early 68000 assembler written at MIT). GNU and most Unix assemblers use the MIT style. In addition to the differences J.J. Lehett described, the MIT assemblers reverse the order of source and destination operands, as compared to Motorola syntax. This does indeed make you change every single line of code when porting to MIT syntax. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 53 Tue Oct 27, 1992 D.LIVINGST11 [ErnestBovine] at 04:46 EST > MIT assemblers reverse the order of source and > destination operands, as compared to Motorola syntax. > This does indeed make you change every single line of code > when porting to MIT syntax. Couldn't a whole bunch of macros (INCLUDE file) fix it? mov MACRO move \2,\1 ENDM etc... ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 54 Tue Oct 27, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 19:58 EST John E.: I have a dialog box in one of my modules which is bigger than the WARP 9 box. Parts of it "overhang" onto the desktop. When my dialog is erased, the desktop underneath it is not redrawn (the WARP 9 box is redrawn properly). I'm using form_dial() and objc_draw() calls. Do you have any ideas about what I might be doing wrong? John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 55 Tue Oct 27, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 21:14 EST Something else you might want to consider when using GCC: you'll need to modify the AES and VDI calls so that they use WARP 9's AES parameter block. Does your C development kit do this John E.? John D. P.S. I'd love to use GCC myself, but that MIT assembler syntax scared me off real quick! ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 56 Tue Oct 27, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 22:57 EST John D., If the area trashed by your dialog box is redrawn when the Warp 9 accessory is closed, then it's operating properly. The form_dial(3) call sends a redraw message. Warp 9 redraws, but the areas around it will not receive their redraws until Warp 9 closes. If you don't like the way this looks, you should redesign your box to be within the area of Warp 9's box. If that area is not being redrawn, then your form_dial(3) call is not set properly. You should also check the width of your box. If it's much wider than Warp 9's, it will be too wide for low resolution. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 57 Wed Oct 28, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:39 EST John D., It's not _required_ that the modules use Warp 9's AES parameter block. We just supply a pointer so they can use it if they want. Neither our ASM or C source codes use configuration boxes, so they don't mess with the AES. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 58 Thu Oct 29, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 22:49 EST John E. So you're telling me I didn't need to recode to VDI and AES calls of MWC? Arggh... I thought I tried doing an appl_init() call and it didn't work. Oh well, at least it warmed up my assembly coding skills. The Warp 9 box redraws OK, but when it goes away the desktop area outside of the Warp 9 box isn't redrawn.... Ah ha, found the error. The parameters were in the wrong order. John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 59 Fri Oct 30, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:17 EST John D., Yup, that's what I was telling you but actually, it was wrong. You've reminded me of why we supply the AES parameter block. It's because you shouldn't do an appl_init() from an Extend-O-Save module. One reason for this is that you'll never do an appl_exit(). You should use Warp 9's AES block and its ap_id because your module is actually part of Warp 9. Another thought about the multi-module loader is that if you're writing all of your modules anyway, you could put them all in one module and select them randomly internally. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 60 Sat Oct 31, 1992 V.GARDNER1 [MIKE] at 18:02 EST Codeheads, I just downloaded W9STSAVE.LZH and found a problem I had seen earlier in PYROTECH ver.1.0. Some of the color med.rez. IMGs effect the upper information bar by over writing "Desk" with numbers that appear to of come from the clock. There are several bubble modules, but only 3 that creat any noticable problems. (FTOASTER.IMG,GOLDMOON.IMG,TOASTER.IMG) All others work fine. The auther of the program does not have a GEnie E-mail box.(Michael Crisafulli) The program was downloaded by MUSE. I was hoping that someome here might like to fix these. NeoDesk 3 NeoControl (clock "ON") Warp9 Warp9 CP Thank you, Mike ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 61 Sat Oct 31, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 21:59 EST John E., Whew! I'm glad to here all the hard work I put into getting MWC to work as an extendo-o-save compiler was not in vain. If I were to write a multi-module loader, I would want it to work with any module, not just the ones I write. There might be extra features available when my modules are loaded, though. (i.e. multiple modules displaying on the same screen). Just a question to the people out there. What would be better, making the modules self configurable, or saving about 10K or so and making external configuration programs? Also, would anyone consider a 100K screen saver a memory hog? John (memory hog) Dillenburg ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 62 Sun Nov 01, 1992 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 08:10 EDT John D., To answer your questions: 1) I personally would prefer self-configurable. 2) I would not consider a 100K screen saver too large if its display was one that I liked. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 63 Sun Nov 01, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 14:01 EST Mike Gardner, I downloaded W9STSAVE.LZH to check out your problem. I was unable to create it, even by going as far as installing Neodesk and enabling its clock. I was also unable to create your problem with Pyrotech 1.0. Can you give more specific information that might enable me to produce the problem (TOS version, resolution, TSRs, ACCs, procedure, etc.)? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 64 Sun Nov 01, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:39 EST John D., What Mike Squire said. - Terry - ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 65 Mon Nov 02, 1992 R.JOHNSTONE1 [Robert J] at 01:51 EST Mike Squire, I don't have any problem with tying up an other 100k. What the heck, I have 6.2 meg of free memory after I boot now. Robert Johnstone Modesto, CAlif ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 66 Mon Nov 02, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:54 EST John D., Another idea that was in the back of my mind is to have a "nestable" module. This would be for something that you'd want to be installed at the same time as any other module you load, for instance, a hard drive parking module. The module would load and would then allow the loading of another module. The routines would "pass through" to the other module. Regarding memory usage, note that TT and Moniterm resolutions already use 153K just to save the screen. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 67 Wed Nov 04, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 21:09 EST John E.: When I use Malloc() to allocate screen memory in my init() procedure, things go wrong. It appears that if another process is created, it will use the same memory which I have reserved for my screen. Do I need to use you xbios table to call Malloc()? I'm using the MWC binding for Malloc() and MFree() right now. BTW, things work great if I use BSS memory for saving the screen to, but this prevents sharing memory between modules. Thanks, John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 68 Thu Nov 05, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:19 EST John D., You shouldn't have a problem with other processes using your malloced memory. I'd suggest that maybe you're using the scrsize variable when you shouldn't. 'scrsize' is only valid if 'scrbuf' is non-zero. Otherwise there is no screen buffer already available and you'll need to computer the size yourself ('scrsize' would be zero). Another possibility is that you're using your compiler's internal library malloc routines. Make sure that you're using the binding's equivalents for GEMDOS's Malloc and Mfree calls, not the compiler's. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 69 Thu Nov 05, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 21:19 EST John E., I'm using my own 'scrsize' variable and I'm definitely using the GEMDOS Malloc() and MFree() routines. I'll keep hackin at it... Ah ha.. I used your ShowMem program and discovered something bizarre. I printed out a memory map before and after loading my module (with the Gemdos Malloc() in its init()). I discovered two blocks were created, one of length 153600 and the other of length 71732. The address returned by Malloc() was to the block of length 71732!?! Now I see why other processes are getting clobbered but I have no clue as to why Malloc() is acting this way. Any ideas? John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 70 Fri Nov 06, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:46 EST John D., I think the cause of your problem will be revealed if you trace through that section of your code. This is the method by which I solve most of my coding problems. I use either Templmon or Amonst and simply put an "illegal" in my code right before the problem section. Tracing the instructions one at a time, it's usually only a few moments before my forehead is reintroduced to the palm of my hand. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 71 Fri Nov 06, 1992 D.FLORY [ALERTsys*Cop] at 23:16 EDT Careful, John, that's how I got this way..... Dave Flory, ALERTsys*Cop 19:09 PDT - 11/06/92 ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 72 Sun Nov 08, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 10:35 EST John E. I have neither Templmon nor Amonst. What are they? John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 73 Sun Nov 08, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:57 EST John D., Templmon is an excellent shareware resident debugger from Germany. It's in the library here. The latest version is TMPL201C.LZH, #24838. We've been using it for years. Just stick it in your AUTO folder and you can pop it up manually any time you like, or use an "illegal" instruction to pop into it from your code. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 74 Mon Nov 09, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 19:29 EST John E. Are you sure I don't need to do anything special in order to get Malloc() to work? I downloaded Templmon, but I can't figure out how to invoke the monitor from inside my code. The German documentation doesn't help much either. Have you used Malloc() in any of your savers? John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 75 Tue Nov 10, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:52 EST John D., Just put an "illegal" instruction in your code at the point you want Templmon to be invoked. "illegal" is an actual 68000 instruction: illegal move.l #-1,-(sp) move.w #$48,-(sp) trap #1 addq #6,sp This code would pop into Templmon. You could then type "t+" to enable trace mode, "g" to start executing code, and hit the space bar for each instruction. Esc will pop out of execution and you can type "x" to examine the registers, "d" to disassembly memory, "m" to dump memory, "t-" to disable trace mode, and "g" to continue back into normal execution. Control-Help will let you pop into Templmon at any time that it's installed. I hope this helps you get going. What disassembler do you use? Amonst is included with Devpac and is another excellent resident debugger. (There were English docs with an earlier version of Templmon.) John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 76 Tue Nov 10, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 22:55 EST -: Smack :- (Sound of hand hitting forehead.) Jeez, sorry I pestered you so much John. I found the error. All my modules shared code with a routine which copied video ram to a buffer. I forgot to decrement my 'dbra' index by one! An extra 64 bytes were being written beyond the end of the save buffer. I tested my modules and they work much better now. John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 77 Wed Nov 11, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:17 EST So when are we going to see some of your work, John D.? :^) - Terry - ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 78 Fri Nov 13, 1992 D.LIVINGST11 [ErnestBovine] at 05:52 EST I think there's a Templmon on Codehead BBS with English docs. Or you could spring for HiSoft's Devpac, and get MON and AMON (newer versions of MONST2 and AMONST2) which I like better than Templmon anyway. HiSoft's people are native speakers of (the queen's) English. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 79 Fri Nov 13, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 20:09 EST Terry, Now that I've fixed to 'dbra' bug, I have four working savers. I was planning on doing at least ten and then releasing them as shareware for $1 a piece. If you only like 5 of them, then you could send me $5. What do you think? I've also been thinking about how I was going to distribute them. I could upload some crippled versions and then send fully working versions to anyone who registered. What do you think? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 80 Fri Nov 13, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:12 EST John, $1 per screen saver is certainly more than fair. Or, you could charge $10 (or whatever) for ALL screen saver extensions you release. Regarding crippled versions, that's a tough question without seeing them. Sometimes crippling works, but quite often it doesn't. And if you're only charging $1 per extension anyway, it seems like you'll be spending a lot of time and expense (to send working versions) for very little in return. If you group them as a package, it might be more worthwhile for you. Also, if you accept Gift-Of-Time, it should certainly help your registrations here. ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 81 Sun Nov 15, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:09 EST John D., I agree with what Terry said. I think if you are going to charge so little and deal with the bookkeeping, administration, and shipping of full versions, you're going to be spending a lot of time for very little money. The time spent on the busy work is almost worth $5-10 for each order so you'd really not be getting any money for the important part -- your programming. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 82 Sun Nov 15, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 14:22 EST Assuming it's possible with EOS extensions, you could release them crippled as 'keyware,' and sell a single key file that would work with all of your extensions, for something like $10-20. Your extensions would look for the key file, and any crippling would be bypassed. Keyware is very popular in the BBS world, and it seems to work pretty well. But again, it depends on the quality of your extensions and how they are crippled. There has to be something there that really inspires the end user, because most of us are lazy. ;^) ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 83 Thu Nov 19, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 19:36 EST Ok, number five is done. I call it "Roaming Shapes". Various shapes move around the screen, leaving a trail of images behind. I think number six is going to be called symmetry and it will be based on symmetric fractals (see latest issue of Scientific America). Keyware? I was planning on disabling the "Save Settings" feature until the user registered at which time I would send them a version with the Save Settings intact. I suppose with Keyware I substitute sending them a key instead of a disk. I could also base the key on the person's address, that way I know who was distributing my program for me :) John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 84 Thu Nov 19, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:57 EST John, You have the right idea on keyware. I'm not sure how you plan to implement it, but I would use ONE key for all your extensions. If you made some significant upgrades and/or some really special new extensions, you could always offer an upgrade key for an upgrade price. Also, your plan to disable "Save Settings" is an excellent one. It allows the user to see _exactly_ what (s)he's paying for, but is crippled enough to motivate registration. ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 85 Thu Nov 19, 1992 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 22:16 EDT Any chance for some support of VDI handles, etc? It really would be alot easier to be able to write to the screen using the VDI then just to screen RAM. -- John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 86 Fri Nov 20, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:42 EST John Townsend, Our theory is that those VDI calls which are handled by Warp 9 will be able to be used by Extendo-O-Save modules. We haven't yet had time to test this or document which calls are allowed. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 87 Fri Nov 20, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:08 EST >J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:42 EST > >Our theory is that those VDI calls which are handled by Warp 9 will >be able to be used by Extendo-O-Save modules. Shame on you, John, for adding that "o" to "Extend"! I note that your header also makes the very same mistake TWICE. If it's any consolation, Dan Quayle would be proud of you. ;^) ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 88 Sat Nov 21, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 00:57 EST That's because everybody that attended the Glendale Show automatically try to add echo to the name. The Codeheads should do a MOD of the name. Have you thought of adding audio support? ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 89 Sat Nov 21, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 15:23 EST Ken, For a very few days, if you called the CodeHead office after 1:00 PM, you got to hear John say: "You've reached CodeHead Software, makers of _EX TEEEEEENNNNNNND-OOOOOOOOO-SAAAAAAAVE_ and lots of other good stuff." It's gone now, but it was good! ===Tomas=== November 21, 1992 @ 12:04:49 pm PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 90 Sat Nov 21, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 21:45 EST Make it a Mod! Make it a sample! Just do it! ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 91 Sun Nov 22, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:27 EST Terry, Yikes! I just realized that the CodeKeys macro for Extend-O-Save on my Stacy has that extra "o". Thanks for pointing that out. Dan Quayle is my idol, so I'm glad he'd be proud of me. Dan said, "George Bush will lead us out of the recovery", but I'm not so sure he'll be able to accomplish it in the next 60 days. Who knows? Maybe? <grin> John P.S. Yeah, now our answering machine just mentions "CodeHead Technologies, makers of lots of good stuff". <grin> ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 92 Sun Nov 22, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 18:43 EST LOL, John! "A wasted mind is a terrible thing." ;^) ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 93 Sun Nov 22, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 21:18 EST Btw, you didn't come to the TCN party yesterday. Tell Ron his pasta was perfect and the TCN guys send their thanks. I send my thanks even though I gained two pounds. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 94 Tue Nov 24, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:50 EST Terry, Actually, the Dan Quayle quote is "what a waste it is to lose one's mind" (in an attempt to say, "a mind is a terrible thing to waste"). This brilliant statement earned him a place in the new revised version of Bartlett's Famous Quotes. Live on in infamy, Dan. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 95 Tue Nov 24, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:29 EST So _are_ you going to sampl e the sound bite? ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 96 Fri Nov 27, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 21:16 EST John E.: I've just finished saver #7, which I call "Chaotic Symmetry". I want my next saver to be a randomizer, but I need the calling conventions for q_loadmodule and q_freemod. Thanks. John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 97 Sun Nov 29, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:13 EST John D., Charles will have to provide the calling protocol for q_loadmodule and q_freemod. I would guess that q_loadmodule is called with the filename (full path) in A0 and that q_freemod is simply called, but this is only a hunch. I've never tried them. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 98 Wed Dec 02, 1992 D.ALVEAR1 [Dom Alvear] at 06:09 EST Howdy, I know this is supposed to be for techincal support, but are there any new E-O- S modules out there? Dom ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 99 Wed Dec 02, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 13:41 EST John Dillenburg, Unfortunately, a randomizer module isn't possible with the current version of Warp 9. As I was preparing to document the calling convention for q_loadmodule, I realized there was a loose end that precludes this. The upcoming 3.74 update, however, will have some changes that will allow a randomizer to work; I'll let you know as soon as it's complete. By the way, I saw the beta versions of your modules that you sent to John -- they look great! - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Wednesday, December 2, 1992 10:40 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 100 Sun Dec 06, 1992 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 13:07 EST Thanks for the kind word Charles, it really means a lot coming from a programmer of your caliber. I have two more modules completed and I'll send them to you for your "approval." I'll hold off and do the randomizer module last. Meanwhile I'm working on the registration program. It will run separately from the modules in order to keep the size of the modules a little more reasonable (even though they're pretty sizable anyways). Waht should I work on for module number 7? Any suggestions? I went through some of the After Dark modules on the MacIIci I use at school. Boy there sure are a lot of them! Gave me some ideas, though. I'm leaning towards a "follow the queen bee" module. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 101 Sun Dec 06, 1992 EXPLORER.1 [ Ron ] at 19:20 EST If you're looking for suggestions, the latest PC Tools includes a great looking screensaver that looks like a fractal sky with clouds that is tres cool. While working at my real computer, I set my PeeCee monitor up on the file cabinet and pretend like I have a skylight :-) Ron @ Atari Explorer ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 103 Sat Dec 26, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 00:56 EST Well, for a lovely Xmas present, I got Warp 9 v3.75 w/ Extend-O-Save and am a 'happy camper.' The only problem is that my Warp 9 manual has pages missing (specifically, I only have 2 pages of Table Of Contents and then the next page is page 7, PLUS I'm missing pages 39-46). Actually, what happened is that an extra set of pages 7-14 and 31-38 exist where the missing pages should be. I wrote this down on my registration card, so could I get a new, correct manual after CodeHead receives the registration card? ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 104 Sat Dec 26, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:25 EST Steve, If you'll E-Mail me your address, I'll send a replacement manual out right away, rather than waiting to receive your registration card. Registration cards are not a high priority (except for Calligrapher's) and it might take quite a while or even be missed if your only request was on your registration card. We can't check every manual and sometimes they are misassembled at the print shop. I'm sorry yours was one of them. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 105 Sat Dec 26, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:07 EDT Steve, Think of the extra aspect this manual problem gives the program. Now you can use it as a sort of adventure game, trying to figure out, by experimentation, what those other pages said... Maybe the Codeheads will give you a prize if you figure it all out... Grin. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 106 Sat Dec 26, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 13:39 EST Steve, Just to clarify what John said about registration cards, it's true, they are not always entered into the database on a timely basis. I'm working to catch up with them for a mailing we have pending. I just wanted to point out that I look at every registration card first thing in the morning and if it contains a desparate plea for help I handle it right away. This is a good reason to always include your work/home phone numbers on the cards. I always prefer a telephone conversation to having to write a letter. In Steve's case, E-mail is the best method of communication. The note on the registration card may result in a duplication. Sorry about your Warp 9 manual. (Ornery printer!) ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 107 Sat Dec 26, 1992 PMC.INC at 14:11 EST So is there a cool Warp 9 screen saver for TT medium res yet? ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 108 Sat Dec 26, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 22:19 EST The best Extend-O-Save module so far for TT Medium (in my opinion) is PYROTECH.EXT. It is in the library here and works in all resolutions. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 109 Mon Dec 28, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:47 EST J.EIDSVOOG1 - Thanks! MUSE - I just wish Atari would keep a database of all the warranty registration cards people send them. From what I've heard, they just throw them all away. I mean, why bother even HAVING the cards if you're just going to toss them? <grin> ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 110 Mon Dec 28, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 09:57 EST >S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] > > ...I mean,why bother even HAVING the cards if you're just going >to toss them? In California they call it "recycling." <grin> ===Tomas=== December 28, 1992 @ 6:53:34 am PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 111 Mon Dec 28, 1992 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 19:13 EDT >In California they call it "recycling." <grin> Oh, so THAT's why I'm on so many mailing lists! You recycle our names, too!<g> mike.k ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 112 Tue Dec 29, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 01:22 EST MIKE, > You recycle our names, too!<g> Sure, if your name is "Paper, Aluminum, Glass or Plastic (or Christmas Tree)." <grin> P.S. Nobody gets their hands on the CodeHead database! Never! ===Tomas=== December 28, 1992 @ 22:06:04 pm PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 113 Fri Jan 08, 1993 J.LEMLEY [Jack] at 07:16 EST Hi All! I just acquired Dynacadd and to my dissappointment my Warp 9 screen saver (nor Hatsave) will work with the joystick dongle in place. I asked about it over in the Dynacadd cat and David's response follows: >Jack, >... The joystick dongle is 'live' causing the computer to think someone >is playing around with a joystick on the second port. The only solution >I know of is to wait until someone comes out with a configurable screen >saver. Is there a way that you guys can address this problem in Warp 9?? Thanks for Great products and Support!! Jack ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 114 Fri Jan 08, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:14 EST Jack, I left a detailed message about this two days ago. Please read message 115 in Topic 31. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 115 Tue Jan 12, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:42 EST Steve Johnson, There are problems with doing things like full slide-show viewers within Extend-O-Save modules. Since the modules are called during an interrupt (vertical blank), it is not safe to make most system calls, especially file loading. To do a slide show, you'd have to load your pictures at "init" time, when the module is loaded. Of course, this would take a lot of memory. If you've got a lot of questions, I suggest reading the EXTENDO.TXT file included with Warp 9 and uploaded to the library here. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 116 Thu Jan 21, 1993 W.DEAN4 [D'noski] at 00:40 EST To Codehead I have Warp-9 and like it very much I was wondering if there were any new screen saver's like those flying toasters and fish of the sea or even a startrek..D'noski ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 117 Thu Jan 21, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:57 EST John Dillenburg has been working on some new modules for Extend-O-Save. We have seen beta versions of them and they are quite nice. I haven't seen him in this topic for a while, so I don't know what the status of these modules is. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 118 Mon Jan 25, 1993 E.JOLLEY [Eric] at 00:55 EST Hey All, Listen to this. Maybe it's already been thought of, or maybe it's just a stupid idea, but tell me what you think: Somebody writes a Extendo-O-Saver that plays animation files (.SEQ and others). That way anybody could write their own screen saver. You want flying toasters, you make an animation that repeats itself. Sure, it wouldn't be random, but this way you don't have to be a programmer to write a screen saver. And screen savers are already evolving into mini-movies anyway. Anybody seen the Origin FX screen saver, or that one from Sierra that's really a cartoon about a guy stuck on an island? Anyway, you get the idea. I just thought it might be a neat idea. Keep in mind someone else would have to program the module that plays the animations, as I have the programming capabilities of a potato. But someone like the elegant Codeheads... Anyway, tell me someone has already thought of it, or that it won't work, or that I'm a unbelievable genius. <grin> -Eric ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 119 Mon Jan 25, 1993 E.JOLLEY [Eric] at 01:05 EST Geez, I just read message 115. I guess that rules out animations if you can't do slideshows. Oh well, it would have been nice. -Eric ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 120 Mon Jan 25, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:20 EST Eric, As you may have realized, if a module were to play an animation, it would have to load the entire animation when the module is installed. That doesn't rule out the idea completely -- it just seriously limits the feasibility. This problem doesn't stop me from calling you an unbelievable genius, either...even if I've eaten potatoes that program as well as you do. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 122 Tue Jan 26, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:38 EST Eric,:-) John, how about a module to do small 32x32 animations or something like a sprite. Then just have 3 or 4 frames repeat for an object following a user setable trajectory, bounce or random fly by. Does something like that sound feasable? I still haven't upgraded... arghh. I'm so lazy.:-) My screen saver just turns black. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 123 Wed Jan 27, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:02 EST Hi folks, I don't stop in here too often 'cause I'm not a programmer, but... I 've just had the chance to try out the newer Extend-O-Save modules and it was a bunch of fun! It's neat that John has done a module for the Stacy backlight. I'd like to see more of the modules support that feature. I've also had a chance to view the modules developed by John Dillenburg. These are really nice. I think I could enjoy collecting EOS modules! But, we _need_more_modules_. Well, I'm here to put out a call to all Atari programmers to try their hand at writing an EOS mod. You could have your company logo dancing across the screens of thousands of ST users! Of course, you could also do something beautiful and totally devoid of any selfish agenda <g>. So what do you say? ===Tomas=== January 26, 1993 @ 11:54:34 pm PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 124 Wed Jan 27, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:11 EST Thanks for the NEW version of Roll 'Em, John! :^) Despite its relative simplicity, that's a pretty neat module. I was wondering if it would be possible to alternate between vertical and horizontal scrolling? I think that would make it a lot more interesting. Btw, I _like_ waiting for it to line back up, after pressing a key. I'm not worried about the 32k memory, but I still have mine configured not to use a screen buffer. I consider the wait a feature! :^) __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 125 Thu Jan 28, 1993 D.ALVEAR1 [Dom Alvear] at 02:20 EST Actually, Eric's "animation" idea isn't half bad if you don't mind the extra memory required. If you have a looping animation, then the whole .SEQ or .DLT file could be stored in memory. I understand that you can't do much stuff like loading from disk, etc., but at least small animations could be loaded into memory. Dom ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 126 Thu Jan 28, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:26 EST Keep the ideas flowing, folks. And by all means, if you're a programmer, feel free to snatch an idea as it floats by. Extend-O-Save modules provide an excellent, easy introduction into the world of assembly language. Try it -- you'll like it. Terry, Thanks for the comments on Roll 'Em. Horizontal scrolling is a bit more difficult (taking more processing time) and might not be as smooth as the vertical scroll. I'll consider the idea, though. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 127 Thu Jan 28, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:38 EST Well, as long as your asking for ideas, John, I'd like to see something along the lines of EDI_UTIL.ACC, in which your fireworks are more random, and include some 'special' patterns, such as the Fuji logo (and perhaps the CodeHead logo :^). I like all the colors of your PYROTECH module, but all the 'sprays' are indentical in size, shape and speed. Thanks for considering horizontal scrolling for Roll 'Em. I thought it might present a problem, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 128 Thu Jan 28, 1993 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 23:58 EST John, I liked the idea of allocating the memory needed by the largest EOS module. You could then possibly have a flag set by the EOS code to tell the ACC to load a new module (which could be done safely), then the ACC sets a flag telling EOS that it is now ok to start up the new module. It would definitely require the W9ACC to do the loading. Just a matter of communication between the ACC and the EOS code. :) If not enough mem was allocated then the module could be skipped over in favor of the next module or previous module. :) You _CAN_ do it!!!!! :) Please try. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 129 Fri Jan 29, 1993 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 19:02 EST Kevin, There are other problems with loading modules on the fly too. EOS modules are allowed to allocate memory when they start up; this is a problem because if you're inside a running program when this memory is allocated, the program will "own" the memory (not the module or the Warp 9 CP; this is how TOS works, unfortunately), and when the program terminates, that memory will be deallocated. Since the module wouldn't know its memory had been freed, at that point Crash City is just around the corner. (This is one of the inflexible things about GEMDOS's memory management that I mentioned earlier.) There is a trick I could use to make GEMDOS assign the allocated memory to the desktop, instead of to the currently running program. However, this trick has drawbacks too; it has problems with the desktop's auto-start feature, and it can lead to badly fragmented memory. This is why it would be a better approach for the randomizer to load all the modules at once and let each one initialize before proceeding. It really is the only way to guarantee complete safety and avoid memory fragmentation. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Friday, January 29, 1993 3:57 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 130 Sat Jan 30, 1993 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 20:20 EST Hmm... I forgot that EOS modules are allowed to allocate their own memory. :) But, W9 already hooks into a "termination vector" (I forgot which one offhand), right? Couldn't you use that hook to then tell the EOS mod to forget about it's allocated memory, and then call the EOS mod's init routine once your back at the Desktop, or whatever shell? Looks like lotsa hooks into TOS and (REREADING the CodeHead commandments :) is in order. <G> Yeah, it is a hairy idea... and would probably be better off as a separate program instead of all this stuff being packed into W9. BTW, W9 does work with MultiTOS if it loads AFTER MultiTOS. MTOS itself is painful to work with (programmingwise) on an 8MHz STf without SOME kind of screen accelleration. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 131 Sun Jan 31, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:43 EST Kevin, "W9 does work with MultiTOS if it loads AFTER MultiTOS"?? How do you get it to work? Is there some system configuration that needs to be set? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 132 Mon Feb 01, 1993 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 01:23 EST Umm... I just reordered my auto folder with NeoDesk to put W9 AFTER MiNT.PRG and then rebooted to the MultiTOS desktop. I can tell that there is a definite speedup due to W9, but I haven't gotten the W9 control panel to recognize W9 as being installed. Of course my NeoDesk 3.02 doens't work with MTOS. Dan is working on that one for us. :) I don't think I have any special config for W9, because I haven't really used the W9 config file capabilities. Since the W9 ACC doesn't see W9 installed & working under MTOS, I only have the default W9 screensaver working (instead of an EOS module). MultiDesk seems to work ok under MTOS too. I got my stuff working under MTOS without any hassles. Yay!!! Boy is MTOS sloooow on this 2.5meg 1040STf @ 8MHz. It really MegaHurts.... :) Oh yeah, if W9 is BEFORE MTOS in the Auto folder, things will DEFINITELY bomb out (usually a buss error)! Umm... I have W9 version 3.75. --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 133 Mon Feb 01, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 07:26 EST Kevin, Aha...since you're running on a 68000, "memory protection" is automatically disabled. On a TT, it's much more difficult to disable memory protection and install Warp 9 to boot. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 134 Mon Feb 01, 1993 J.DILLENBURG [John] at 22:15 EST I've have released my screen savers for Shareware distribution! As soon as the sysops clear it, you'll find a file called SAVER12.LZH in the library. It contains six of the savers I created: FRECKLES, RANDLINE, ROAMSHAP, PYRODLX, SHAPES, and SYMMETRY. I'm asking $10.00 for registration. The programs are key protected and the SAVE feature will be disabled until you register and get a key from me. John D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 135 Mon Feb 01, 1993 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 23:38 EST John D.- Great! I've been waiting for them! -Tom McComb {10:31 pm} Monday, February 1, 1993 ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 136 Tue Feb 02, 1993 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 00:05 EST Great news, John; thanks for releasing your modules! By the way, folks -- these modules are definitely more than worth the mere $10.00 John is asking. Let's encourage him to write more by paying the shareware fee if you use them -- and you will use them, because they're terrific! - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Monday, February 1, 1993 7:47 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 137 Tue Feb 02, 1993 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 03:12 EST John D.'s modules are great! I'm probably the first to register. Thanks for the effort john! -Tom McComb {3:11 am} Tuesday, February 2, 1993 ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 138 Tue Feb 02, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:02 EST Tom McComb, It was close to an hour, or even more, between the release of John Dillenburg's modules and your shareware registration. My only question is, what took you so long? (Oh yeah, you had to use them first in order to decide if you needed to pay for them.) John <grin> ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 139 Tue Feb 02, 1993 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 16:36 EST I'll just try harder next time, John. I'll send in $$ when I THINK he's about to release a new batch. Excuse me, I have to go do my psychic exercises. -Tom McComb {12:52 pm} Tuesday, February 2, 1993 ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 140 Tue Feb 02, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:20 EST John D., Thanks for the six new E-O-S modules! These are a welcome addition to my collection. My Moving Pictures update came just in time! :^) Here's a short review of each one: Chaotic Symmetry - This might be the best module of the package, save for the fact that it's so slow. It seems to take forever to complete a fractal. This reduces the effectiveness of saving the screen. Also, I don't care for the colors; I wish it would use the current system palette. Looks better in low res. BUG: The shaded scroll bar does not work in the config. Freckles - A somewhat simple module, but one I really like. BUG: It bombs and locks the system up if it kicks in while in MaxiFile's viewer. Pyro Deluxe - Somewhat of a disappointment, I'm sorry to say. The rockets are almost impossible to see in med res, unless I get real close to the screen. The sprays are not much better, especially the red (?) ones. I also don't care for the colors. And, the default setting, which doesn't clear the screen, is fairly useless as a screen saver. (Maybe that's to force us to register? ;^) I do like the low res display, and wish Pyro Deluxe would give me the same display in med res. (Hi res looks great, too.) Random Lines - Very nice, especially without clearing the screen. Looks like someone's throwing a bunch of colored toothpics on my screen. :^) Random Shapes - Great module with lots of options. The XOR setting is kind of neat at first, but eventually looks like something crashed. ;^) (Another module that begs registration, because of the default settings. :^) Roaming Shapes - Another nice module with lots of options. I especially like it configured with rather long tails. (Still another reason to register. :^) Bug: It clears the screen regardless of setting. All in all a very nice collection, and I WILL be registering soon. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 141 Tue Feb 02, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:58 EST I just reread my reviews and noted that they might be interpreted as being negative, overall. I was simply offering some constructive criticism. In fact, I'm VERY happy with the new modules. Thanks again, John D.! __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 33 Message 142 W